SPEAKER_00: 0:00

Como no mires al talento senior, no vas a poder cubrir tus necesidades de talento para crecer como compañía, para cubrir tus proyectos, para cumplir tus presupuestos, para cumplir tus objetivos, para notar in riesgo la valoración of your compañía, etc.

SPEAKER_01: 0:20

In a place where the esperanza of it has been duplicated in a cycle, we think that in the 65, but the talent senior no is retired. We have dadismo, the proposal, and of how many actives, curiosity, and utterly to the society when the mayor empieces a decision that ya toca parar. Te lo agradezco mucho, un placer. Llevamos los primeros que te llamé al principio.

SPEAKER_00: 1:07

Ha sido dos años, sí, sí, por fin, and I'm sort of important here in your studio.

SPEAKER_01: 1:15

Muy fortunate. One of the things that I preocupa is the future of the talent at the moment that we have more times, and there are much gentlemen who at a certain time encuentra for things ajenas to support. Or because a lot of people can retiren pretty, but it's really pretty, and it's a perfect for the society, no? What are we doing? What we're going to do in this sentiment?

SPEAKER_00: 1:51

I think we have apret the play during a single, I investigate where we were attractive in this paradigm that at the 65 years of the ancient idea more profound. When has exprested historically a fecha or an idea? In España, exactly the 19th of March of 1919, it pronunciated for the prime, which are 65 years, when it creates the retirement obligatory. The esperanza of being saludable llegando 74, 75 years, but in our planification vital, that the 65 years. And at the end of this 50, you say, Well, for what will form me, for what we appear, if I do, we always have 50 years. And we have all the things that are doing that if the people at the end of the 50 years appear more, that if it is incompatible with the technology, and the problem is that one accepting. What you think about me is the value. Exactly, and it comes comporting as the room. And this I think is the kilometer zero of whatever process of transformation that we have to commit. And what is the play? And when we go to the play, we described that when after a single picking 65, possibly in this decade, 75 or 80 years. But it's a very noticeable for much of the people. But there are much activities. Exactly, and much, sino de alguna manera. Privada. Privada, sí. Exactly. And not creating a solar moment, a solar reference in the etapas vitales in which we generate this urgency or a depression. There's another message that is demoled, which is when you go to the 60s, 65, there is a voice misteriosa that says, I think you have to discuss. No, no, it's not a discans, there's done to discuss. Romper today secular hípico no es fácil.

SPEAKER_01: 6:44

No desde una especie de edad, ¿no? 65 is una cosa bastante common, you can see in the mercury or en el mundo nórdico o alemán. But there are more flexibility, no?

SPEAKER_00: 6:59

That's what I think. You know, there are many in which it's that determined not to work like in your home. But surgeon activities, occupations, and offerers, and there are many barreras. There are many barreras not for the cuenta ajena, in one casual for cuenta property, there are barriers, it's too barrier. And there are many people in those nordics and in other territories that emprend at the 60s and 70 years.

SPEAKER_01: 7:47

I don't know exactly the data, but it's more than that.

SPEAKER_00: 8:27

Hay un dividendo demográfico, que es lo que como llaman los demógrafos que pasó con el mundo de la mujer en hace décadas. El dividendo de la longevidad. Exactamente, el dividendo de la longevidad, oye, llamemos a todos estos reservistas para que entren en el mercado. Sobre todo como tú la escasez de mano de obras representa la tercera mayor preocupación del mundo empresarial español. Those años de millions de positions in cubrire.

SPEAKER_01: 8:58

And luego hablando de los esos que decías, ¿no? No, no es cierto. Dat is that el OCDES de más de 55 años, el 40% se siguen formando con frecuencia.

SPEAKER_00: 9:39

Sufrieron incluso muchas atention than the home. The home, and it's logical apeteciver to the officer, because the response of my seniors were much more effective and much more adapting. It's an intelligence of the home. Vas in this process of ensay-error, vas confirming, vascure. Inclusive vascular jug, exactly, it's a job, and a lot of people consigns asombrosas, and it's impossible, nothing mean, and we have conseguid. So what is more the talent junior or the talent senior? Not one is more normal than the other. But when you junt, construct equippers of alternative rendimiento, because the more of that one of those, of the capacity cerebral, we estás uniendo. And structuras jerárquicas, porque eso sí que es la nuestra. Tu entras en cualquier oficina, en cualquier organización, y dices, ¿quién es el jefe? Vos el Mar Senior. ¿Quién es el menor jefe? El Mar Junior. Dices, oye, y en equipos transversales, horizontales, dices, ¿se pueden trabajar al mismo nivel? Sin duda. Claro, ese yo creo que es el gran reto. La diversidad generacional como diversidad cognitiva, en este caso, ¿no? La unión de lo mejor de cada una de las generaciones.

SPEAKER_01: 12:55

Es verdad que cuando se habla de diversidad se habla de una manera muy cerrada y muy estrecha, pero la diversidad cognitiva ligada también a temas de experiencias y edades, es absolutamente.

SPEAKER_00: 13:07

Y luego incluso puedes utilizar la matriz, es decir, en función de la estrategia de cada una de las organizaciones, si tú tienes que innovar mucho, pues coge más gente joven, al lado de gente senior, con un menor porcentaje. Pero si es al revés, cuando ya tienes un negocio más maduro en donde tú tienes de alguna manera que asegurar and consolidar, coge gente más madura. Y puedes hacer ahí una combinación, una matriz casi ya como muy general. El porcentaje de generación that necesitas de cada.

SPEAKER_01: 13:32

Y para romper con todos esos sesgos, tú trabajas mucho with this type of perfiles and compañías. You know there are three name. There are one governmental or regulatory that can ayud a la gente a tener una vida más flexible after a certain time. But then desde la perspective of the empresas, we should understand what empresas are distinct that you want to teach and have things that other empresas. But now there's a part of personal, it's a part of it, I mean I'm going to do it. But they are infelices, who has been working after the 60 years in their rueda, they are dispedted and are very perfect because they sent hovers, but they don't want to work, it's impossible.

SPEAKER_00: 14:15

There's a barrier tremendous, and it's terrible because the 50% of the people of 50 years who are in employment tardan most of a paradox of la duración because they are much difficult. It's the cause of mayor discrimination in the market.

SPEAKER_01: 15:17

Claro, present, pero tienen 56.

SPEAKER_00: 15:27

Exacto, exacto. Sí, sí, esa es una realidad aún in el mercado. Lo que pasa es que la demografía juega a favor de superar estos prejuicios y estos sesgos. Yo siempre comento ya ultimamente que el tema de la gestión del talento senior primero because you consider that this. Primero, the gestión del talento senior from a descongelation of those prejuicios and those sesgos, when you're the reality talking, in function of what we're talking about at the principal conversation, and the diversity generational. And there is a third that is very bonus and is more philosophical, which is the recuperation of the pacto intergenerational phone. This pacto that our abuelists and bisabuels and tatarabuels enter very the mayor of the home in the moment, and when you have the moment, the mayor. But we should say that it's the ultimate maturation that our minds. Descongel those credentials, those, which are put in risk. But when we have demographically talent junior, because no one has fabricated, simply quantitatively exists, and if exists is evanescente, is volatile, and says, I'm with you, and at the año I voy, I will start with you, so we are doing many times, not more than two years.

SPEAKER_01: 18:13

Pierdes unocimiento cuando has hecho eres de jubilaciones, de prejubilaciones a joven, 50i. De repente pierdes una base de conocimiento muy profunda de una company. Exacto. Posible de reemplazar.

SPEAKER_00: 18:25

No, no, y hay, como bien sabes, sectores muy intensivos in conocimiento interno que pueden empezar a perder ese conocimiento interno, sobre todo. Hace the primer semestre of this year, we present an study that we had at the Foundation Más humano, which we bautized laboral. And the permanence is between 1,7 and 2 years. And it is a new special that in that manner appreciated from his parents and his abilities when they said no, no, the employee of it has disappeared. The empresa says, okay, when you have this, I surrounded a new special and says, No, no, you have to. For navigating a labour with alternative incertidumbre and instability, I have to dirige my carrier. So I accelerate my crecement, accelerate my apprentice. It's what I think that I salts at the second liana, but at the moment I have negotiated, what I interest is taking a buy and accelerate that in two years we appreciate much. Exactly, exactly. If this is a part more important of my equipping, how preserves the conocimiento interno? Claro, you aparece the senior.

SPEAKER_01: 20:52

An example is the CTO. And we built that in an organization, in a bank, in a way. The tendency is not anything. Because historically, but not what happened. And have much married, because you can see track records of what it was like 5 a year, okay. But there are many companies that empower to visualize, but a CTO that has been a process of cambio de transformation, but what it value in talento ya no solamente el impulsor, sino la combinación de los dos.

SPEAKER_00: 21:52

Exactly. Es decir, yo creo que hay muchas razones pragmáticas, no sublimes, dices, no, es que es bueno, no, sino que exigen a las empresas top a process of gestion del cambio cultural for that descubran realmente that the talento senior is a necessity. But simply for the force of the evolution quantitative of the demographic.

SPEAKER_01: 22:40

But we have three name, a nice regulatory or a nivel empresas and a nivel personal.

SPEAKER_00: 22:47

If you want a nivel empresas, examples of companies that are nombres, but empresas como Mafre that are liderando, sobre todo con estudios, con prácticas. GSK igualmente están muy interesados como compañía farmacéutica. Los bancos, los grandes bancos también ya están empezando a incorporar, como el BVA, como el Santander, Toyota. ¿Qué hacen especial? ¿Qué pueden aprender otras compañías que no lo están viviendo tan bien? En capacidad, en principio, están creando las conversaciones internas. Descongelar superar todos estos prejuicios andes necessitates a processar. It's a gestion of cambio, like one that gestion of the empresas. But in this caso necessity, when the programmes for incorporating the talent feminine at all, we have to superjuge. Create this conversation internal, empezation to enter that in the moment in which we are influenced by this leg of the several XIX and describing that our impediment, because the reality is totally distinct. And create those conversations intern is the fundamental. Exactly, gente por encima de los 55. Luego lo cogeré o no lo cogeré. But luego you have candidatos de más de 55. And empezar a medirlo con indicadores. For example, tenemos un proyecto de empezar a cambiar. Hablabas de la regulation. And for the razor que estábamos comentando, a veces tener una diversidad generacional is a predictor of mejor performance de negocio in muchísimas companhias. Y lo hablamos in su momentum, fondos de inversión importantes that pueden ya empezar a valorar positivamente a través ofes no financieros que cotizan en los índices de sostenibilidad. Habrá que empezar a medirlo. Habrá que empezar a medir cuántos profesionales de 50, 55, 60 años are incorporated, cuántos profesionales de 50, 55, 60 años de altísimo nivel de altísimo valor profesional estás incorporando proyectos ofrece interno, que no sean cuidar la próstata, que dice, no, no, nosotros tenemos un plan de formation for the senior that is cómo cuidar, cómo mirar la próstata, cómo preparar your prejuilation, yoga, flexibility, what we're preparing is your protagonist in the vanguard digital, the transformation of these organizations. Consider people of 50 years that are potential, who are people of absolutely value that you can do your career, and create that we have a case.

SPEAKER_01: 26:16

And the flexibility, contractual distinct, and function, or not?

SPEAKER_00: 26:24

This week we have 10 or 12 important, multinational and espancient, in which we investigate, because it's a little bit of the second carrier. And the second carrier produces when you professionally and renaces, I have 58, 60, we will create my project. But we wonder if this second carrier is possible to create the labor dentro of your organization. No. I prefer to turn and you can work and use the manner in which you can work, but just a lot of the model. The point is: does insert a new itinerary of the carrier from the 65 to the 75 or 80 that is attractive for those parties, for this talent of alternative value that the organizations should retain, but also have a process attractive and approach. I connect with your point. Inclusive from the point of retribution, possibly I'm going to revisit my because I was the piano, the rent and I compensate this I have. And this will be accompanied by perspective regulatory, because in France and in Nordic plan of pension is aligned, the group of work will have people with the part dura, convenient, normatives, regulation and systems of prevision. The other day we commented, for example, the Community of Madrid is in 2025 to language a plan of gestion of talent in the Community of Madrid officially. The Stadista in the different generations, because the political in the different elections. The conversation that we have in the elections have many votes, but this is locked, 20 years. But clearly the demographic gives, and also what we comment and is that it's a problem voluntary, it's a problem of optional. It's a problem that is attractive for those people who can work, not to be a employment traditional, and that the system can permit. And also for the And what you decías antes el trabajo is bueno. El trabajo te hace sentir útil. El trabajo te sigue joven y insano. Para el país. Para el país. Para el país. Ese conocimiento no lo puedes de repente.

SPEAKER_01: 30:15

Había un estudio que decía que si los demás de 55 and 65 tuvieran la misma tasa de paro que en la media, el resto, serían 4 puntos de PIB por encima, directos.

SPEAKER_00: 30:28

Rafa Domenech, a través del UV this año, presentaba un studio que pareció muy interesante, una gráfica. The task of employee of mayors de 65 years in Spanish is un 3%.

SPEAKER_01: 30:47

But entre 55 y 65 también había una brecha relevante, parece ser.

SPEAKER_00: 30:50

De 60 a 65, pero de 65 per arriba practicamente is el desierto. Dices, ¿tiene sentido? Pues no, no tiene ningún sentido, sobre todo when you compares. I entra in Japan, Europa, and the differential defensive, bueno, pues eso, 13 puntos.

SPEAKER_01: 31:05

Japón cara, otra cosa is cómo lo aplican algunas things, but I have clearly that this is a problem and an opportunity tremendous.

SPEAKER_00: 31:11

Tremendous, tremendous, tremendous. No, no, yes. My father, much more time, in a club with Garrigues, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 31:32

My father found Advent with 72.

SPEAKER_00: 31:35

And Déborah, Spanish, 72, no, no, and I but the message is not for those, it's for the people who are, the people who seen home, and we have to use manas, and it's like that there's a part moral that is that the drama of people of 50 years who are professionals are totally valid, because in their carnet figure 50 or 55 years and they have options is a tragedy personal.

SPEAKER_01: 32:03

This is the thing that I'm going to do a little bit, because it's a little bit the drama of the people who have a carrier professional brilliant, have dedicated support to have a position. But inclusive desarrolling sure professional, there's a despidence, and it's impossible to have much. Hay cosas que podemos hacer pensar a partir de los 45, los 50 para prepararnos para esa segunda carrera que no me gusta llamar a la segunda carrera, pero su siguiente. ¿Cómo seguir aportando la sociedad? Exacto.

SPEAKER_00: 33:00

Yo creo que hay una generación de transición, que es la que estamos viviendo ahora, porque yo sí que soy optimista and I have esperanza for what we comment on in our conversation, that there are a moment in which people are very attractive for the market for escasez of other generations more happy, because they superjugos, as well as the world of the world. But it's that in this moment this will live and there are people who are.

SPEAKER_01: 38:17

Normally when we are in a intense at least, we are tremendously focused in what we have with very contacts. And when you have a contact with clients and providers, and your group, and the people who are professional.

SPEAKER_00: 38:46

Exactly. There are enormous opportunities of employee, and in these opportunities of red, with a community.

SPEAKER_01: 40:04

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00: 40:11

Exactly, exactly, exactly. In episode more temprane, if you aspires to have a large professional, and sometimes aspires that this professional is in your hands, not in the others, but the property, and a frasch of your destination, but it is in your decision to sit or not, but construct a project. There are people who are this in your project, traditional employment, you in your personal, for example, I don't know. This is my inspiration that we have. I think I'm in the mitad in the Equal.

SPEAKER_01: 41:30

Two years, but I alegro mucho haber.

SPEAKER_00: 41:34

Está siendo un placer. Te lo agradezco mucho, gracias, eh? Ha sido un placer. Muchas gracias.

SPEAKER_01: 41:48

Escuchar a Tomás is a token of attention for each one of us, for the executives who are at the second phase, to the leaders of the description of the talent senior, but also to the society, to transform the problem of a population that embedded in an opportunity. Tommy to revisit this narrative, to compress that what are the people, but the ideas that limit. The pandemic demonstration just the contrary. This episode an idea clear.